07-15-2009, 01:10 PM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: cheshire UK
Posts: 22
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 Quote:
Originally Posted by 69alfa
I am using A DTA S60
Here is a link to DTAfast Home Page
If you goto the download page you can get the pc software and view my map.
You can also get the manual.
Daves_Twinspark_V4.0_July7.map - FileFactory (Click on free download and it will after 30 seconds.)
You can also join the user group here dtaforum.psycode.com :: Index
The DTA is a great product but aimed at race cars more than street cars. The manual is hard to follow and the software is a bit confusing. But this is my first time using any ECU and I would buy it again . IT DOES TWIN SPARK WITH THE CLICK OF A BUTTON. You should be able to find loads of tuners using DTA on your side of the pond. Same with Emerald . You should get Dave Walkers book Engine Management it's great and he talks about Emerald because he is the owner of the company .
I had emailed Welcome to the Emerald M3D homepage and was told they would make me a twin spark ecu but I went with DTA. I was not to keen on the idea of a custom product. |
fantastic - dta turn out to be 20 minutes drive from me!
will have a look at the maps etc at the weekend
marc
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07-17-2009, 02:15 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: cheshire UK
Posts: 22
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sorry for all the questions.....
did the 750 bodies have choke butterflies as well? did you remove them? pretty certain the ecu should be clever enough to sort cold start/running
I'm using gsxr 600's as 38mm dia are deemed enough for up to 50bhp per cylinder (apparently) - also a bit cheaper than the 750's
regarding the variator -
did you leave it in?
if so did you go for a rpm triggered sensor (stand alone) or via dta?
or did you just leave the solenoid activated and tunned around it?
reading the Jim Kartalamakis book it implies in the back that the standard ts inlet cam with variator is good enough for 7500 rpm and near race spec? performance rating 9!
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07-22-2009, 03:06 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Toronto Canada
Posts: 244
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marcevo1 ask all the question you what and I will answer the ones I can.
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did the 750 bodies have choke butterflies as well? did you remove them?
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Where the 03 used four, single-barrel throttle bodies, the 04's feature dual, double-barrel units with Suzuki Dual Throttle Valve (SDTV). Containing two butterfly valves inside the throttle body, the primary is controlled by the rider, the secondary by the bike's smaller, lighter Electronic Control Module (ECM). Reading information from sensors located on the crankshaft, the gearbox and the throttle, the ECM uses a stepping motor. This opens and closes this secondary butterfly, depending on the engine rpm, the gear position, or how much throttle the rider is dialing in. The result is a feel that is similar to that of CV carburetors, allowing the bike to pull strongly from as low as 6000 rpm. Pretty amazing when you think it revs to 15500 rpm!
I don't think this setup would do any good on a car motor even if it could be properly controlled. I removed the butterflies and the shaft then plugged the holes with set screws.
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pretty certain the ecu should be clever enough to sort cold start/running
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You are correct FI systems have no need for chokes they can just add more fuel .
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I'm using gsxr 600's as 38mm dia are deemed enough for up to 50bhp per cylinder (apparently) - also a bit cheaper than the 750's
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The reason I went with the 750's was the very close match to the Twin Spark inlets .
And the standard Alfa rubbers fit the throttle bodies perfect . The 750's are aprox 42 mm at the butterfly may not be the best for hp but that would be very hard to figure out.
Quote:
regarding the variator -
did you leave it in?
if so did you go for a rpm triggered sensor (stand alone) or via dta?
or did you just leave the solenoid activated and tunned around it?
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I did connect it and it is controlled by one of the programmable outputs I can set it to come on and off as I wish .But I have it turned off for now it does not seem to do much . I think it is more of a pollution thing . More investigation required.
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07-23-2009, 06:46 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Worcestershire, UK
Posts: 352
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Marc, I'm using a set of GSXR 600 TBs on a 2l Zetec. Apart from the TBs and a tubular manifold, it's stock. Makes 168bhp. (Yes, I know it's not an Alfa engine, but it's pertinent!).
Can't recall if I've said it on this board, but I did have some issues getting good repsonse at the very bottom of throttle travel - it seems that the transfer characteristic on the bike TBs as you crack the throttle is a bit abrupt! It meant closing up the TPS sites at the bottom to improve resolution. A blended system using a MAP sensor would work well too.
The stock injectors on the 600 flow 212cc/min @ 3 BAR so big enough for 200bhp if you wanted to use them.
Ditto with those additional butterflies too - removed them and plugged the holes. Did read about someone who left them on, had the TPS connected to them, but the throttle connected to the actual throttle butterflies. No surprise, it didn't work......
.hijack over 
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07-23-2009, 09:48 AM
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Location: Royal Oak, MI
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great work!
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07-24-2009, 05:37 AM
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Location: cheshire UK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CorseChris
Marc, I'm using a set of GSXR 600 TBs on a 2l Zetec. Apart from the TBs and a tubular manifold, it's stock. Makes 168bhp. (Yes, I know it's not an Alfa engine, but it's pertinent!).
Can't recall if I've said it on this board, but I did have some issues getting good repsonse at the very bottom of throttle travel - it seems that the transfer characteristic on the bike TBs as you crack the throttle is a bit abrupt! It meant closing up the TPS sites at the bottom to improve resolution. A blended system using a MAP sensor would work well too.
The stock injectors on the 600 flow 212cc/min @ 3 BAR so big enough for 200bhp if you wanted to use them.
Ditto with those additional butterflies too - removed them and plugged the holes. Did read about someone who left them on, had the TPS connected to them, but the throttle connected to the actual throttle butterflies. No surprise, it didn't work......
.hijack over |
cheers - out of interest did you use the standard injectors? if so what did you do about the vacuum for the brake booster / servo? seen a guy doing a very complex manifold system on a vtec honda... surely bias box would be easier and remove the booster/servo completely?
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07-26-2009, 10:46 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Richmond, CA
Posts: 256
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Non-servo brakes
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcevo1
surely bias box would be easier and remove the booster/servo completely?
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Easier still is to remove the booster and fit a street-car master cylinder of a slightly smaller size to provide high brake pressure and useful pedal travel for brake modulation.
My '74 GTV had a 22mm ATE master cylinder. I removed the booster and replaced it with a 20mm ATE master cylinder from a BMW 2002. (Any European car from the same era with ATE brakes will have a master cylinder that pretty much bolts right in... same bolt spacing, same brake line fitttings, etc. Just pick & choose the bore sizes you want.)
Brake pressure is fine, pedal travel is several inches with a nice, firm feel, and brake modulation is superior to the boosted system.
Much simpler than a bias bar system... didn't even have to fabricate new brake lines. I did have to fabricate a bracket to replace the space left by the booster, though.
Most bias bar systems I've experienced tend to squeak and groan and develop a lot of stiction after a while if not regularly serviced. An OEM street-car brake system will give years of trouble-free service.
At any rate, I did all this when converting my SPICA throttle bodies to EFI injectors; my TPS unit blocked the location for the brake vacuum line.
George
'74 GTV 2000
SPICA throttle bodies, EFI, Megasquirt ECU
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07-28-2009, 02:34 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Worcestershire, UK
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Hi Marc,
The car doesn't have a servo (sshhh...it's a Westfield) so that wasn't an issue for me. I like George's solution though.
I did use the stock bike injectors - they have a good spray pattern too. Sorry - bit of brain fade on the flow rate - they are 220cc @ 3 BAR, not 212cc. I had one tested when I first got into this as I wasn't sure they'd be big enough. They were marked Keihin PH23
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10-01-2009, 07:50 PM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Toronto Canada
Posts: 244
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Hi Guys,
It's been a long time since I had any progress with my Twinspark setup.
At the end of Aug I had a steering box brake apart. On the up side it was in front of the garage and it happened at very slow speed . On the down side it took a long time to get the car back together.
So it turns out you have to remove the exhaust to get a steering box out.
Well good time to put on that new stainless steel system I got from Alfaholics
I had a conversion manifold from EBspares connected to a twenty year old stainless system that came with the car. I was ok but not designed with performance in mind.
Here is a link to what I got Alfaholics Stainless Steel Sports Exhaust for TwinSpark Conversions
It took a bit of time to get it installed but I did it with the car on jack stands. I think I could have put it on in less than an hour if I had a lift. All the parts are very well made . And go together with a push fit. Also the upgrade clamps are very nice.
After so long off the road I was very happy with the new tight steering and the deep exhaust note. I drove the car a bit last Saturday but just around town no highway driving until tonight . I drove the car to our last show and shine of the year here in Toronto.
WOW the motor pulls like it is possessed . From 4500 rpm up to 6000 is so much fun it must be some kind of Sin. 
Now it's time to do the power tuning at the dyno . I may have to install a speed limiter to try to keep my licence .
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10-02-2009, 03:39 AM
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Join Date: May 2003
Location: Oakville ON
Posts: 1,971
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It was great to see you and the car last night Dave. Fantastic job!
__________________
Ken Lee
Oakville, ON
1974 GTV 2000 - Ruby (I'm never selling this one, honest!)
1973 GTV 2000 - Blanche (or this one I hope)
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10-02-2009, 05:18 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Athens Greece
Posts: 835
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nice
the throttle body set up does it need a return fuel line?
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10-02-2009, 08:21 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Worcestershire, UK
Posts: 352
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Unless you are using a pressure modulating pump, yes, it will need a return line. What I did with the conversion I did was to use the original fuel line as the return, then added a new, larger bore line as the feed.
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10-11-2009, 09:47 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 38
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David,
I am getting ready to put the bike throttle bodies on my spider and have a question about the tps switch. did you use the tps switch that came with the bike throttle bodies and if so did you keep any pinout reference.
I can likely figure it out by checking it with a multimeter but it would be nice to get some confirmation from a working system.
thanks in advance for any information you can provide.
andres
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10-12-2009, 01:09 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Worcestershire, UK
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Yep, the bike TPS is fine - it's a 4k7 linear pot. Colour code...not of the top of my head, but I can look it up tonight (I think I had the wit to make a note!).
It's a shame, but the second pot, the one on the outer set of valves, is the same resistance as the main pot...but slightly different physically, so it's no good as a spare.
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10-12-2009, 11:13 AM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Toronto Canada
Posts: 244
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Hi Andres ,
Yes I used the GSXR sensor. This is the way I used it.
Yellow Sensor
Blue + 5 volt
Black 0 volt (sensor ground)
What motor and computer are you going to use?
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